I saw Iron Man yesterday before my Cinco de Lyman birthday celebration. I must say we have a new contender for best super hero movie. It is just fantastic. Robert Downey Jr. and Jeff Bridges do a terrific job, super hero movies often devolve into a bit of camp but Downey and Bridges never resort to melodrama. And how hot is Gwyneth Paltrow? She hasn't been this hot since Great Expectations over 10 years ago. There is a lot of action and a good story that keeps you engaged. Downey is funny and the scenes with he and Gwyneth really pop. So go see it.
The Problem With Hero Movies
As I've often said before I'm not a tremendous fan of comic book super hero movies. This may seem odd to you especially if you know what a comic book nut I am. I've been collecting comic books for most of my life, you would think the recent glut of comic movies would excite me to no end. That's not the case.
Here's the problem, every comic book movie you see is simply about the hero's origin, if there is a sequel then all you see is the origin of the villains (often intertwined with further telling of the origin of the hero). The only fascinating story that movie makers can focus on is the origin of the characters. Why? They don't want to alienate movie-goers who know nothing about comics. And that is the rub. Comic books are a serial genre, a constant story of a hero's adventures and battles. Character origins are only one tiny part of their stories. So when we see adaptations of comic books we're only getting a small piece of the storytelling heroes are capable of.
Handling this is what makes movies like Iron Man and Spider Man so good. Spider Man in particular incorporated the origin story with incredible pacing so the narrative kept moving along but you were never bogged down with a lack of action. Iron Man works in the same way although his back story was changed quite a bit to accommodate the film.
Marvel, DC, and Super Hero philosphy
Have you noticed that most comic book movies made these days come from comic book publisher Marvel? Spidey, Iron Man, Hulk, Daredevil, X-Men, Ghost Rider, Punisher, etc. all come from the Marvel stable. The only movies we've seen from DC heroes are Superman and Batman. Why is that? Are there more Marvel heroes? Certainly not, DC has much more history on its side and decades with of characters. Are Marvel heroes stronger characters? Not necessarily, the iconography of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman alone refutes that. What's the difference?
Well the DC characters are all Classic super heroes, God-like and mythological driven to goodness by their innate desire to help people; Wonder Woman, queen of the Amazons, Aquaman, king of the seas, Superman, the invincible being from another planet, Martian Manhunter, all powerful Martian from a forgotten race.
On the other hand Marvel characters are Romantic super heroes, real people often with tortured pasts who have felt driven to help people by circumstance, Spidey becomes a hero after his uncle dies due to his own selfishness, the Hulk is tortured by a dual personality and can only become powerful when overcome with rage, Daredevil the blind lawyer whose father was a criminal, and on and on and on.
So naturally when you consider what I was saying before regarding movies focusing on origins its easy to see why Marvel super heroes are adapted more often. Their back stories are more human and emotive and there is more to work with thematically.
The Notable Exception
The major exception to the Classic DC hero v.s. the Romantic Marvel hero is, of course, Batman. And this is what makes Batman the greatest super hero character of all time. He is both Classic and Romantic at the same time; classically he is always cool and in control of the situation, he can convincingly fly through space with Super Man fighting super villains from different planets then bust a street criminal on the streets of Gotham City. There is nothing that happens in his city that he does not know, he is a god of the streets knowing the names of nearly every criminal in Gotham. But at the same time his soul is tortured by the death of his parents, he is aloof from his friends and can never keep a long-lasting romantic relationship.
It is no wonder that two of the best comic book movies have been Batman and Batman Begins.
These are the kind of things that goes through a comic book geek's head after watching something like Iron Man. Maybe you won't wax philosophical after seeing it but I'm sure you will find it as kickass as I did.
Movies and the Mythology of the Super Hero
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- at 8:25 PM on Tuesday, May 06, 2008
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10:23 AM
Just curious how you feel these compare to graphic novels made into movies, Sin City, 300, etc. Obviously, the graphic novels have a much less extensive time frame to cover a characters backstory (pages versus years), but they are still a highly graphical medium like comic books.
Do the graphic novels translate better to films because of the limited "serial" nature of them or do they still suffer for different reasons? -
10:46 AM
Actually the majority of graphic novels turned into movies are simply collections of comics. Sin City for example started out as a serial. In fact the Sin City stories were only told in 5-10 page increments in a comic anthology called Dark Horse Presents. Ghost World, 30 Days of Night, etc. all were originally published as comics.
But even if they weren't I was only talking about super hero books. 300 is a historical re-telling, Road to Perdition is a noir, A History of Violence is drama so these books and others like them probably are more effectively adapted since they don't really deal with super heroes. - 6:21 PM
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8:51 PM
Lyman, this is truly your realm compared to my limited knowledge of comic books so that's why I'm asking these questions. That, and I thought maybe we could talk about something where we both have an interest and that didn't divide us into warring political camps.
I guess it depends on your definition of super hero. Spartan King Leonidas in 300 has, to me, super human strength, the ability to lead men to a certain death to protect the common good of their society, and even has a mask that helps transform him from Spartan citizen (albeit a soldier) to Spartan warrior. Seems like a pretty good definition of a super hero, even if it is a fictionalized retelling of a historical event. Or does the definition of super hero dictate that you have to have a hidden identity?
The graphic novels that originate from comic books, are they normally shorter run comics or are there any that come from long running comic books? For example, do any of the Batman movies have Batman graphic novel influences? Or do the movies come from long standing Batman comic book traditions?
While I'm not disputing your arguement because I think there is logic there, I think there could be another factor as well, similar to Andy's comment. With the notable exception of the Superman movies, neither publisher had a decent movie made until Batman in '89. At which point DC saw that it could be profitable (and translatable) and quickly turned out the campy and crappy Batman follow-up movies. The next decent one was Marvel's Blade in '98 and since then they have both released several after finding again that they could be profitable. If you look at the Marvel releases, it has only been a few characters (three Spidey movies, Daredevil and spinoff with Elektra, three Blade movies, three X-Men movies, two Fantastic Four movies, and Hulk, Ghost Rider, and Iron Man movies sprinkled in). During that time frame, DC has had just about as many releases, with probably a little less success and with some "lesser known" comic book characters (League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Catwoman, Constantine, Batman, V, and Superman).
I think they are both figuring out that comic book geeks are often movie geeks too and DC has just had a slower start in getting good movie versions of them made.
I became long-winded and I apologize. I spent my youth money on sports cards and I'm starting to figure out that I missed out a little on comic books. -
2:01 AM
Certainly King Leonidas was a hero and the way his story is portrayed in 300 he has near super powers, but the difference between his story and say Iron Man's is that he is a historical figure and his tale has a finite beginning and ending. Also his mythology did not originate in comic book serial form, the comic book is a mere adaptation. That's not at all what I was referring to.
There hasn't been any direct adaptation of a super hero graphic novel that I am aware of. The new Batman movies have a comic called The Long Halloween as an influence, but nothing directly adapted.
As far as your comments of the number of Marvel and DC movies, I stand by what I said about Marvel super heroes being better suited for movies. It may look like DC has more super hero movies out, but that's not really the case; League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is made up of literary characters, super heroes maybe but none of them originate or "live" in the comic idiom, V for Vendetta is another historical re-telling with no comic book super hero to speak of, Constantine is an anti-hero, a character who works for the devil, definitely not a super hero. In fact most of those movies were based on comics published by Vertigo Comics, a DC imprint directed at mature readers.
As far as super heroes all DC has is Batman and Superman and Catwoman if you want to count her (but most people are trying to forget that movie ever existed). - 2:02 AM
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8:42 AM
Drew - How could you forget the Superman movies? Until Richard Pryor came along they were classic!
I really enjoyed Iron Man, I thought it was just about perfect. The only thing I would have liked to see is more flying and fight scenes from the bucket head. But there is always the next movie for that...I cannot wait until the Avengers movie. If they don't mess it up, it should easily become your number one movie over Batman (which I'm not a huge fan of, Spidey movies are way better to me. Heck, even the old 2 hour Spiderman shows on WTTV 4 were better, ha!)
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